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	<title>Comments on: Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States’ Faces</title>
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	<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/</link>
	<description>Chronic Disease Management • Technology • Strategy • Issues and Trends</description>
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		<title>By: Vince Kuraitis</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13508</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince Kuraitis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13508</guid>
		<description>Devon,
Interesting initiative you describe.  $10 PBPM might have been a significant enough incentive for a commercial health plan population.  Medicare patients are sicker and will require a significantly higher PBPM payment.

V</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devon,<br />
Interesting initiative you describe.  $10 PBPM might have been a significant enough incentive for a commercial health plan population.  Medicare patients are sicker and will require a significantly higher PBPM payment.</p>
<p>V</p>
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		<title>By: Devon Devine, J.D.</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13507</link>
		<dc:creator>Devon Devine, J.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13507</guid>
		<description>We had a coalition in California put together by the California Academy of Family Physicians and organized labor... we thought that incremental improvements would be possible with the 10 PBPM. The requirement that the state sign the letter of intent in a short time period, and the state&#039;s reservations about the progress, led to the LOI not being sent. A disappointing result. Looking forward to the next opportunity, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We had a coalition in California put together by the California Academy of Family Physicians and organized labor&#8230; we thought that incremental improvements would be possible with the 10 PBPM. The requirement that the state sign the letter of intent in a short time period, and the state&#8217;s reservations about the progress, led to the LOI not being sent. A disappointing result. Looking forward to the next opportunity, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Randall Oates, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13445</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall Oates, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13445</guid>
		<description>I am concerned we may be about to enter another cycle in healthcare where the hubris of high managements ultimately brings down another healthcare system restructuring that, again, harms the interface (i.e. patients and their trusted physicians). Borrowing some thoughts from Peter Drucker, management guru, who elegantly identified this “blind” high level forced management as undesirable, and touted the requirement of MWA (management by walking around), I believe it&#039;s well known that if you don&#039;t ask those that do, you&#039;ll do what you shouldn&#039;t do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am concerned we may be about to enter another cycle in healthcare where the hubris of high managements ultimately brings down another healthcare system restructuring that, again, harms the interface (i.e. patients and their trusted physicians). Borrowing some thoughts from Peter Drucker, management guru, who elegantly identified this “blind” high level forced management as undesirable, and touted the requirement of MWA (management by walking around), I believe it&#8217;s well known that if you don&#8217;t ask those that do, you&#8217;ll do what you shouldn&#8217;t do.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaan Sidorov</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13424</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaan Sidorov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13424</guid>
		<description>I agree that, while there is a methodology behind the $10 PMPM amount, physicians will find it inadequate to cover their costs, provide a margin and supply an additional &quot;risk premium&quot; that I think is necessary in dealing with a fickle goverment agency. Remember, the docs are also dealing with the SGR debacle.

I also agree that the demo process is problematic.  This is huge undertaking being presided over by a corner of CMS that critics have charged is underfunded and undermanned.  Me thinks that when all you have is the hammer of a demo, all Medicare benefit design issues look like the nail of prospectively conducted trials.  Both issues could be solved by a time-honored approach used in State and commercial programs: outsource it.  Surely the States would be willing to take that on?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that, while there is a methodology behind the $10 PMPM amount, physicians will find it inadequate to cover their costs, provide a margin and supply an additional &#8220;risk premium&#8221; that I think is necessary in dealing with a fickle goverment agency. Remember, the docs are also dealing with the SGR debacle.</p>
<p>I also agree that the demo process is problematic.  This is huge undertaking being presided over by a corner of CMS that critics have charged is underfunded and undermanned.  Me thinks that when all you have is the hammer of a demo, all Medicare benefit design issues look like the nail of prospectively conducted trials.  Both issues could be solved by a time-honored approach used in State and commercial programs: outsource it.  Surely the States would be willing to take that on?</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Stuart</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13420</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 05:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13420</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Will CMS participation put the damper on Medical Home demonstration? http://bit.ly/bUJJnn&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Will CMS participation put the damper on Medical Home demonstration? <a href="http://bit.ly/bUJJnn" >http://bit.ly/bUJJnn</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Vince Kuraitis</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13416</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince Kuraitis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 22:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13416</guid>
		<description>Chris,

On your first point about rates, we agree that $10 per beneficiary per month is way too low.

A main point here is simply to suggest that Medicare has right arm/left arm problems.  In structuring the Medicare Medical Home Demo (MMHD), Medicare did extensive analysis in coming up with the $40-52 range. (of course, many disagreed with the methodology).

For the MAPCP demo, Medicare relied on a recent survey of PCMH rates.  There is no reference to all the extensive work and machinations for MMHD pricing.

The beast is forgetful.

What&#039;s the right amount?  We really don&#039;t know...  I&#039;ve discussed benchmarks in a previous blog post at http://e-caremanagement.com/the-medical-home-confusion-over-care-management-fees/. On the higher side, a Deloitte study suggests $150 PBPM is required to make the medical home work.

In previous discussions we&#039;ve had, yes, I&#039;ve expressed concerns about the methodology of the Medicare Medical Home Demonstration project -- that it&#039;s structured for failure http://www.thecollaborativeforum.com/24/medicalhomemodel/the-medicare-medical-home-demonstration-mmhd-between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/

My concern really isn&#039;t that $40-50 isn&#039;t too much -- actually, it&#039;s probably still too low to entice physicians to participate in large numbers). My concern is that we structure demos correctly out-of-the-box so they have potential to be successful.

As to your second point about needing a more collaborative approach -- yes!  Medicare&#039;s rigidity is showing in every line of the RFP for the MAPCP.

Actually, this whole demo process is being done backwards.  The states ought to being issuing RFPs asking Medicare to submit a proposal to participate in their multipayer demos.  The states are on the leading edge of innovation here, not Medicare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>On your first point about rates, we agree that $10 per beneficiary per month is way too low.</p>
<p>A main point here is simply to suggest that Medicare has right arm/left arm problems.  In structuring the Medicare Medical Home Demo (MMHD), Medicare did extensive analysis in coming up with the $40-52 range. (of course, many disagreed with the methodology).</p>
<p>For the MAPCP demo, Medicare relied on a recent survey of PCMH rates.  There is no reference to all the extensive work and machinations for MMHD pricing.</p>
<p>The beast is forgetful.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the right amount?  We really don&#8217;t know&#8230;  I&#8217;ve discussed benchmarks in a previous blog post at <a href="http://e-caremanagement.com/the-medical-home-confusion-over-care-management-fees/" >http://e-caremanagement.com/the-medical-home-confusion-over-care-management-fees/</a>. On the higher side, a Deloitte study suggests $150 PBPM is required to make the medical home work.</p>
<p>In previous discussions we&#8217;ve had, yes, I&#8217;ve expressed concerns about the methodology of the Medicare Medical Home Demonstration project &#8212; that it&#8217;s structured for failure <a href="http://www.thecollaborativeforum.com/24/medicalhomemodel/the-medicare-medical-home-demonstration-mmhd-between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/" >http://www.thecollaborativeforum.com/24/medicalhomemodel/the-medicare-medical-home-demonstration-mmhd-between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/</a></p>
<p>My concern really isn&#8217;t that $40-50 isn&#8217;t too much &#8212; actually, it&#8217;s probably still too low to entice physicians to participate in large numbers). My concern is that we structure demos correctly out-of-the-box so they have potential to be successful.</p>
<p>As to your second point about needing a more collaborative approach &#8212; yes!  Medicare&#8217;s rigidity is showing in every line of the RFP for the MAPCP.</p>
<p>Actually, this whole demo process is being done backwards.  The states ought to being issuing RFPs asking Medicare to submit a proposal to participate in their multipayer demos.  The states are on the leading edge of innovation here, not Medicare.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Fowlkes</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13414</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Fowlkes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 21:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13414</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Emerging Reality Suggests Medicare Will Be a “Difficult” Partner  http://bit.ly/bUJJnn&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Emerging Reality Suggests Medicare Will Be a “Difficult” Partner  <a href="http://bit.ly/bUJJnn" >http://bit.ly/bUJJnn</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Langston</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13412</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Langston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13412</guid>
		<description>Thanks Jaan and Vince for another valuable update on medical home matters.

A couple of points:
I agree with you that the per person-per month rate, if around $10= is going to be far too low for practices to DO anything sufficiently differently so as to impact health outcomes and Medicare spending.  I can&#039;t help but observe, though, that last time I spoke with Vince, he was on the opposite tack -- that the proposed Medicare payment of $40-$50 per person per month was too big and that practices would never be able to save that much money and so make the demo cost neutral.

Second and more important - I think this solicitation shows the fundamental mistake we have been making in this process - trying to do everything in a competitive contracting/grant making mode.  Surely, when working at the state level, it would be more reasonable for CMS to convene and work closely with those states who think that they might like to participate and educate, negotiate, and develop the approach together rather than this rigid approach.  I think it would be less harmful to the public good to have angry loosing states sue about the process, than build in approach that is virtually certain to be futile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jaan and Vince for another valuable update on medical home matters.</p>
<p>A couple of points:<br />
I agree with you that the per person-per month rate, if around $10= is going to be far too low for practices to DO anything sufficiently differently so as to impact health outcomes and Medicare spending.  I can&#8217;t help but observe, though, that last time I spoke with Vince, he was on the opposite tack &#8212; that the proposed Medicare payment of $40-$50 per person per month was too big and that practices would never be able to save that much money and so make the demo cost neutral.</p>
<p>Second and more important &#8211; I think this solicitation shows the fundamental mistake we have been making in this process &#8211; trying to do everything in a competitive contracting/grant making mode.  Surely, when working at the state level, it would be more reasonable for CMS to convene and work closely with those states who think that they might like to participate and educate, negotiate, and develop the approach together rather than this rigid approach.  I think it would be less harmful to the public good to have angry loosing states sue about the process, than build in approach that is virtually certain to be futile.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Langston</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13413</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Langston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13413</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Medicare Medical Home Demo news and opinion at E-CareManagement blog: http://bit.ly/bkTahl&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Medicare Medical Home Demo news and opinion at E-CareManagement blog: <a href="http://bit.ly/bkTahl" >http://bit.ly/bkTahl</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Ashlie Michaels</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13410</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashlie Michaels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 04:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13410</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States ...: by Jaan Sidorov, MD and Vince Kuraitis The Me... http://bit.ly/9vNeP6&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States &#8230;: by Jaan Sidorov, MD and Vince Kuraitis The Me&#8230; <a href="http://bit.ly/9vNeP6" >http://bit.ly/9vNeP6</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Gregg Masters</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13409</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregg Masters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 02:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13409</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;A deep dive into results of CMS&#039; &#039;Multi-Payer Advanced Primary Care Practice&#039; demo ~ http://bit.ly/cxI7K3 h/t @VinceKuraitis #healthreform&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">A deep dive into results of CMS&#39; &#39;Multi-Payer Advanced Primary Care Practice&#39; demo ~ <a href="http://bit.ly/cxI7K3" >http://bit.ly/cxI7K3</a> h/t @VinceKuraitis #healthreform</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Lea Carey</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13408</link>
		<dc:creator>Lea Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13408</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;RT @VinceKuraitis: Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States’ Faces http://bit.ly/d7dZC3 #hcr #pcmh&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">RT @VinceKuraitis: Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States’ Faces <a href="http://bit.ly/d7dZC3" >http://bit.ly/d7dZC3</a> #hcr #pcmh</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Vince Kuraitis</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13407</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince Kuraitis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13407</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States’ Faces http://bit.ly/d7dZC3 #hcr #pcmh&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States’ Faces <a href="http://bit.ly/d7dZC3" >http://bit.ly/d7dZC3</a> #hcr #pcmh</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: vincekuraitis</title>
		<link>http://e-CareManagement.com/medicare-mapcp-medical-home-demo-cms-kicks-sands-in-the-states%e2%80%99-faces/comment-page-1/#comment-13614</link>
		<dc:creator>vincekuraitis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://e-CareManagement.com/?p=1590#comment-13614</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States’ Faces http://bit.ly/d7dZC3 #hcr #pcmh&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Medicare MAPCP Medical Home Demo: CMS Kicks Sands in the States’ Faces <a href="http://bit.ly/d7dZC3" >http://bit.ly/d7dZC3</a> #hcr #pcmh</span></span></span></p>
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